Trying to get back into things

[Xkeeper]

Normally I would just try to find one but there are so god damn many clones these days that I do not where to go. :sowsuser:

Hell, I'm still using Texmaster 2009 Patch 1. Oi. So what's the best TGM simulator out there at the moment? I seem to get conflicting answers between Texmaster and Nullpomino.

[muf]

For TGM1 emulation, I think Eirstt is pretty good.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

what exactly do you mean by "best"? =P

[Caithness]

I'm under the impression that the only thing that versions of Texmaster newer than that include is SRS.

[DeHackEd]

Hell, I'm using the same version of texmaster (but for other reasons) (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/showpost.html?p=33587&postcount=558)

[Amnesia]

HEBORISC7

[SYN7HOR]

I would say Heboris C7V4EX. Finally something that works in fullscreen on my LCD TV, over HDMI. It feels very responsive, plays every mode there is, and EVERYTHING is customizable. The only bad thing about it are the attack, def, item and normal choice you have to make at the beginning of ever versus game. Anyone know how to disable those and just let it play at normal?

Here's the one I'm using -> http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5234648/Heboris__C7V4EX_%28Tetris%29_-S7R

[Rosti LFC]

It feels very responsive, plays every mode there is, and EVERYTHING is customizable.

That doesn't mean anything if the modes aren't accurately cloned.

[colour_thief]

Well, it can be close enough that it's fun for all the same reasons. But if you want to compete with others, texmaster and the real games are still the only choices at the moment.

[SYN7HOR]

Well, it can be close enough that it's fun for all the same reasons. But if you want to compete with others, texmaster and the real games are still the only choices at the moment.What's the problem with Heboris vs Heboris competition? The game surely isn't scoring randomly? It even automagically records every session.

I like TAP alot too, me and my friends (I'm not the only TGM junkie around here!) spend about an equal amount of time with Heboris and TAP. TAP just feels really good, but it's sucks not being able to turn off the music. That tune you hear when you play vs, it's not really funny anymore. It fucking sucks.

But I'm having a hard time dealing with 20g without floorkicks for the I, so I'm most comfortable with the TI-ARS rotation in Heboris.

The day MAME emulates TGM3, will probably be one of the happiest days of my life.

[muf]

What's the problem with Heboris vs Heboris competition?
The fact that almost nobody plays it anymore these days, so you're likely to either be alone on the leaderboards or competing against old records set years ago.

[SYN7HOR]

The fact that almost nobody plays it anymore these days, so you're likely to either be alone on the leaderboards or competing against old records set years ago.Yeah, but why doesn't anyone play it? Because the scores aren't comparable to the real TGM scores?

[muf]

Yeah, but why doesn't anyone play it? Because the scores aren't comparable to the real TGM scores?
The scores also aren't really comparable between different computers-- A rather buggy game engine coupled with the inability to drop frames means often people aren't playing the game at full 60fps, making gameplay easier and invalidating their scores.

[m:)]

I get the same scores in heboris C7 and texmaster.

The new texmaster does add those medals you get to tell you how your doing, it also saves section times now.

[colour_thief]

What's the problem with Heboris vs Heboris competition? The game surely isn't scoring randomly?

I meant that competition only works when others compete with you, and people are rarely sharing Heboris records these days. It's probably a combination of people prefering things that are more accurate, and the death of Heboris development, and the huge stigma against Heboris due to Arika's direct persecution of it.

[ausoff]

Could someone tell me what the buttons are on a TGM3 cab? Im trying to set up an arcade stick to be the most accurate that it can be. right now i have button 1 rotating left, 2 right, 3 left, and 4 swap. is that right?

[muf]

Could someone tell me what the buttons are on a TGM3 cab? Im trying to set up an arcade stick to be the most accurate that it can be. right now i have button 1 rotating left, 2 right, 3 left, and 4 swap. is that right?

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6386/16012010315.jpg

World rule (SRS):

(*) (R)(L)(R)
| (H)

Classic rule (ARS):

(*) (L)(R)(L)
| (H)

[Rosti LFC]

Texmaster just does a better job cloning than Heboris does, replays are less of a faff, and it has easy AVI-conversion (in the older versions at least), which is the main reason I use it.

[Zaphod77]

Heboris Mini has more accurate cloning of the TGM modes in it.

However, it also allows you to rerecord, playing a replay back and then lets you break in. This invalidates it completely. Heboris is simply not secure.

I do feel it has better response than texmaster, though, which is probably why Amnesia likes it.

[Rosti LFC]

Amnesia just likes it because there's less competition against his records, so he feels like he's better than he actually is.

[muf]

Amnesia just likes it because there's less competition against his records, so he feels like he's better than he actually is.

Ouch. :awe:

[awake]

The scores also aren't really comparable between different computers-- A rather buggy game engine coupled with the inability to drop frames means often people aren't playing the game at full 60fps, making gameplay easier and invalidating their scores.

Just wondering, does Nullpomino have this problem too?

[Zaphod77]

nullpomino has very good TAS-detection. So while it will let you cheat, it will show TAS-PLAY on the screen if you do.

[colour_thief]

There's no such thing as a perfect TAS detector. If you cheat modestly there's no way to tell no matter how you code it.

[Zircean]

The TAS detection was pulled out in 6.3 alpha. Even then, it's not *that* hard to get around the TAS detection in the last NullpoUE for 6.2... And it's far from perfect. It only sets off in two cases (detecting >5% slowdown and use of rerecord).

Only I know how to turn off the TAS PLAY thing, though (as far as I know) :v I suppose with a bit of digging it wouldn't be all that difficult to find out how to do it though. This is sort of the problem with replays one can freely edit, but whatevs...

[Edo]

There's no such thing as a perfect TAS detector. If you cheat modestly there's no way to tell no matter how you code it.
You don't even have to cheat modestly - even in the latest Texmaster / Nullpo it's very easy to slow the game down to as slow as 50% and still fool the TAS detection. Honestly, when the TAS detection is so easy to negate, it makes it completely redundant, epecially considering that experienced players can detect TASes by eye way more accurately than any machine ever could.

This is a rather obvious example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQcEdJbDdcY

[muf]

nullpomino has very good TAS-detection. So while it will let you cheat, it will show TAS-PLAY on the screen if you do.
The point wasn't about TAS'es though, it's about getting slowdowns and not even noticing yourself. When I started playing Heboris, my average FPS would be in the range of 50-55fps. Because I just started out and didn't know what the game was supposed to feel like delay-wise, I didn't notice until I turned on FPS display. Playing with accidental slowdown can make you last 100 levels longer than you would normally.

[Zircean]

You don't even have to cheat modestly - even in the latest Texmaster / Nullpo it's very easy to slow the game down to as slow as 50% and still fool the TAS detection.[/url]

As I said before, the latest version of NullpoMino seems to have gutted the TAS detection I wrote in... some of it is still there, but a lot of it isn't...

[Zaphod77]

You don't even have to cheat modestly - even in the latest Texmaster / Nullpo it's very easy to slow the game down to as slow as 50% and still fool the TAS detection. Honestly, when the TAS detection is so easy to negate, it makes it completely redundant, epecially considering that experienced players can detect TASes by eye way more accurately than any machine ever could.

This is a rather obvious example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQcEdJbDdcY

That is from before the TAS detector was put in, so that doesn't really count. I've also found that responsiveness is not very good when i fall below 60 fps.

[Edo]

Zaphod, the point I was making is that TAS detection is not needed, the fact that that video was made before Report put it in is irrelevant; any experienced player can tell that it's a TAS within the first few seconds. Okay, so that video is one of the more blatant examples, but even when they're subtle, the human eye is still the most reliable method of TAS detection.

Anyway, back on topic, Xkeeper was asking about the best TGM simulator. Without a doubt, Eirstt is the most accurate in terms of timing, score, grading, and randomizer (pretty much every aspect). Heboris C7 is all over the place in terms of accuracy. NullpoMino and Texmaster are somewhere in between; Texmaster has very good timing (apart from the DAS charging aspect) but the score, grading and randomizer are significantly off; Nullpomino has less good timing, but the score, grading and randomizer are more accurate.

If you're interested in SRS, currently the only games that implement it 100% accurately are Eirstt and NullpoMino.

[Ray Ayanami]

Normally I would just try to find one but there are so god damn many clones these days that I do not where to go. :sowsuser:

Hell, I'm still using Texmaster 2009 Patch 1. Oi. So what's the best TGM simulator out there at the moment? I seem to get conflicting answers between Texmaster and Nullpomino.
Nullpomino is practically the spiritual successor to Heboris, only more accurate and much more mod-friendly. Only problem is that since it runs in Java, it eats up memory and has input lag every now and then.