Hard Drop VS Tetrisconcept

[Amnesia]

I feel sad in thinking that in the past, the 2 styles of High level tetris gaming were together under the name of one community.
Now, the 2 groups has been splitted : there is Hard drop and Tetrisconcept.

Do you know why we are only 250 here and they are now 1500 ??
Is Hard drop more focused on amator skill (= much more players) than us ?

I read a little bit some topic which pretend to discuss about the best players in the world and it seems that they only consider their style as the reference, I have not seen the name of jagorochi and c_t even one time, and mine has been mentioned only for my rubbish performance on BB last summer.
I feel frustrated and upset against them. It seems too easy.

[Amnesia]

http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1538&st=50&gopid=15770&#entry15770

Sorry, I have stayed quiet and calm for too long now..
I had not opened a hot discussion for a while, I need to hear people insulting me a little bit..:rolleyes:

[muf]

1500? That's not the number of players, Amnesia. It's the number of people posting in the "What are you listening to" thread.

[Rosti LFC]

They're only on 1500? They've slowed down massively in the number of members they've been getting in the last few months.

There's no real difference between the two sites, just that TC doesn't advertise and whore itself out, and doesn't have Blink's Facebook fame to bring in newbies.

In letting people find us, most of the people who register at TC have a decent chance of sticking around, because just finding this place shows they've got more than your average interest in Tetris. No point having thousands of registered members if they don't actually visit the site again...

[Red_Star]

I don't think that HD v TC is the way to go about this. These sites are not competing. Each site offers something different and people can go to both sites if they want. TC is more TGM while HD is more SRS.

Now HD has something that gets them more members, and that is the whole community stuff. Instead of being mainly Tetris it lends itself to a lot of random talking, like Mufunyo mentioned, threads like "What are you listening to". Not exactly my cup of tea, but it does help get members for them.

If you want more TGM discussion on HD then go onto HD and start threads about TGM. Put up TGM guides and such. Know that most of the members in the "What are you wearing today" threads probably don't know much about TGM. Lure people with the exciting game play of TGM.

[Rosti LFC]

If you want more TGM discussion on HD then go onto HD and start threads about TGM.

I've never understood this logic. Or more, I've never understood why anyone would expect us to ever bother to do that. We could make the threads on HD, or we could just make the threads here and get far more intelligent replies, and not have to put up with crap from the likes of Corrosive.

[Red_Star]

I've never understood this logic. Or more, I've never understood why anyone would expect us to ever bother to do that. We could make the threads on HD, or we could just make the threads here and get far more intelligent replies, and not have to put up with crap from the likes of Corrosive.

I thought Amnesia's problem was there was no TGM discussion on HD. If people don't like that they could easily just post TGM discussion on HD. I never said you would get good replies at all. In fact your point is very valid.

However, if for whatever reason someone wanted TGM discussion on HD all they have to do is start a new thread. It will be buried very quickly under other threads, but that is just how things go. You could disguise it as "What do you where while playing TGM" that might get some replies, but you said something about intelligent replies, so I guess that is out.

[Amnesia]

It is not exactely that, they ignore it, and worse, some people like corrosive dramaticaly underestimate it.

I mean essentially you limit your knowledge to TGM games as they limit their knowledge to SRS games.

Now I disagree, because I spent a several moment to play in their domain, I stayed a while on BB to appreciate and discover a lot of subtilities on OG style. I also spent a long period on SRS, so I CAN pretend to have a general knowledge which allow me to judge more than them.
I will never be defeated against a noob on SRS, like blink who has been unable to resist to my girlfriend who had even no capacity of creating pressure on any opponent.
It is just an idea I can't get, for a world class player to be beaten by a common player.

No need to add that they played ARS 20G, and blink had no experience with that, but still. It would be for me like, massacring the best PES player in the world on a FIFA game !

I admit that blink, trance, corrosive, jujube, caffeine, meow and a lot of other players are astonishing on versus, I will never reach the half of their skill, but I just can't accept that they pretend to be the world reference on TETRIS with no interest at all on TGM.

[Red_Star]

I will never be defeated against a noob on SRS, like blink who has been unable to resist to my girlfriend who had even no capacity of creating pressure on any opponent.
It is just an idea I can't get, for a world class player to be beaten by a common player.

I really don't get why you bring that up so much. I am pretty sure I could also beat Blink in a game that he never plays.

SRS as far as the world tetris scene goes is basically the judge, because ARS is just not used enough around the world. Japan has TOJ, America can play TF, Korea has hangame(or however you spell it). Sure they are ignoring TGM, but can one really blame them?

I love TGM. Think it is a great game, and a real challenge. That being said, SRS is basically the world reference. If TGM wanted to be popular outside of Japan then they would have made more than TGM:Ace available.

[Kitaru]

:words:
:sowsuser:

I really don't get why you bring that up so much. I am pretty sure I could also beat Blink in a game that he never plays.
QFE

If TGM wanted to be popular outside of Japan then they would have made more than TGM:Ace available.
You act like it was remotely possible for Arika to get a worldwide license. :<
TTC is notorious for screwing Arika over when it comes to console releases in Japan, so it really is no surprise that they haven't been able to pull off a worldwide release thus far.

I don't really think ACE would have been a good "world premiere" game anyhow, but that is a whole other story.

[Red_Star]

:You act like it was remotely possible for Arika to get a worldwide license. :<
TTC is notorious for screwing Arika over when it comes to console releases in Japan, so it really is no surprise that they haven't been able to pull off a worldwide release thus far.

I don't really think ACE would have been a good "world premiere" game anyhow, but that is a whole other story.

True. I have heard something along those lines. But regardless of whose fault it is, the fact remains that it just doesn't have a big standing outside Japan. It needs to be more available, but I am sure anyone who likes the game already wishes that. I just can't blame people for ignoring it. It is hard to be competitive in games that are not available to play. At least not easily, or with legal means.

[clincher]

I feel frustrated and upset against them.
I still don't get why
Cause people didn't mention TGM players? Most people (including myself) don't know that many TGM players just like you don't know that many vs players.

1500? That's not the number of players, Amnesia. It's the number of people posting in the "What are you listening to" thread.
LOL

[Corrosive]

I respect TGM and the skill all of you have in single player TETRIS.

It's a different kind of skill that you and I have, us SRS players suck at TGM and you guys really suck at multiplayer. Who is to say which type takes more skill? If I spent as much time playing TGM as I have multiplayer (7+ years) then I would probably be a GM and all of that fancy stuff too and vice versa.

The multiplayer scene sucks now because one, there is all these games that are dividing everyone: TOJ, TF Live, Blockbox, tnet2. And two, everything is changed now and tspins and combos have taken over, which is really a dramatic change in the whole game. I prefer the old style of play (tetrinet) and 98% of everyone else on HD hates it. I wish there would be just one recognized game that everyone plays and are all under the same roof, even if it has tspins which of course it will. I could either keep bitching and quit the TETRIS scene or jump on the next PC multiplayer game that TTC releases.

And you have to admit that multiplayer is less nerdy than TGM, and a lot less nerdy than playing arcade TETRIS. I'm not even religious about tnet2 or TETRIS in general like you guys are. Some of you need to lose your virginity and get out of the house.

P.S. mad respect for colour_thief and Kitaru

[m:)]

i post here, i post there.

the forums move slowly there as well. Overall it's a nice group of people. As mentioned there has been much more recruiting over there.

the whole devision that came when tc.com closed is kind of a bummer.

I thought this thread was going to be some kind of challenge between the two lol.

[cyberguile]

Some of you need to lose your virginity and get out of the house.


You really should avoid such conclusions to your posts, makes the whole thing useless ;)

[PetitPrince]

TC = TGM
HD = SRS

Number of people playing SRS >>>> Number of people playing ARS.

QED.

That, and what Red_Star said (we do lack a place to rant about real life)(I'm still favorable to a "General Tavern" thread).

Now, if you want more people in TC, you have to offer something more than a forum. If you look at HD, there's news, user's blogs...

I'm not saying TC should be like HD to bring more people, but I think there's not much incentive to register and contribute to TC, other than "Oh. There's a bunch of Tetris geeks. And they play an awesome and mad Tetris. Let's join !".
I'm not saying having few people is bad either. I'm a regular in a french forum (BouleDeFeu, aka Boulette) that has more or less exactly the same setting than TC, and we're perfectly happy with that.

[muf]

we do lack a place to rant about real life
IRC. Real life stuff needs to be neither archived nor in the public eye. Also Facebook (most TC members are friended on Facebook).

[KevinDDR]

And you have to admit that multiplayer is less nerdy than TGM, and a lot less nerdy than playing arcade TETRIS. I'm not even religious about tnet2 or TETRIS in general like you guys are. Some of you need to lose your virginity and get out of the house.

Arcade tetris is more nerdy? I'm pretty sure we actually go to an arcade and talk to each other in real life instead of playing random people on the internet. Regardless, I won't hold it against you.

[Rosti LFC]

*profound stuff*

o_O

[m:)]

IRC. Real life stuff needs to be neither archived nor in the public eye. Also Facebook (most TC members are friended on Facebook).

I refuse to make an account on facebook.

but, the general forum here is "general" so any topic should be ok.

[Corrosive]

what arcades have Tetris in them? not here in America. You guys meet up at each others house and play with the joysticks and stuff.

tgm is still cool tho I've seen the videos

[m:)]

IRC. Real life stuff needs to be neither archived nor in the public eye. Also Facebook (most TC members are friended on Facebook).

what arcades have Tetris in them? not here in America. You guys meet up at each others house and play with the joysticks and stuff.

tgm is still cool tho I've seen the videos


there are a few, however they are few and far between.

I think TTC thinks TGM is too difficult and would scare users away. they want noobs to succeed at marathon mode.. :rolleyes: so they keep the gimped tetris worldwide and TGM exclusive to Japan.

multiplayer avoids people realizing how gimped TTC tetris is because you can play better opponents to increase the difficulty.

[Zaphod77]

TO put it bluntly, Henk Rogers sold out.

The Guideline is geared towards the casual player because there are many more casual players, and thus making it easier for them gets them more money.

Now i agree that srs is a fairly solid system for multiplayer tetris, as well as for time and score attack.

But it completely breaks down when used for classic tetris, where the goal is survival. This is the reason people complained about Broken Tetris. But Henk says there are many players of "broken tetris" and he has a point.

TGM still is around in Japan because of the significant playerbase that cut their teeth on Sega Tetris. It is the natural evolution of that game. Had it gotten worldwide distribution things would be a lot different today. We'd all probably be playing with 1G autoshift and ARS.

[awake]

Now I disagree, because I spent a several moment to play in their domain, I stayed a while on BB to appreciate and discover a lot of subtilities on OG style. I also spent a long period on SRS, so I CAN pretend to have a general knowledge which allow me to judge more than them.
I will never be defeated against a noob on SRS, like blink who has been unable to resist to my girlfriend who had even no capacity of creating pressure on any opponent.
It is just an idea I can't get, for a world class player to be beaten by a common player.

No need to add that they played ARS 20G, and blink had no experience with that, but still. It would be for me like, massacring the best PES player in the world on a FIFA game !

I admit that blink, trance, corrosive, jujube, caffeine, meow and a lot of other players are astonishing on versus, I will never reach the half of their skill, but I just can't accept that they pretend to be the world reference on TETRIS with no interest at all on TGM.

I play TGM too, once in every while anyway. :mad: You aren't convincing me that you've had a lot of experience in multiplayer by listing Corrosive. :sneaky:

The multiplayer scene sucks now because one, there is all these games that are dividing everyone: TOJ, TF Live, Blockbox, tnet2. And two, everything is changed now and tspins and combos have taken over, which is really a dramatic change in the whole game. I prefer the old style of play (tetrinet) and 98% of everyone else on HD hates it. I wish there would be just one recognized game that everyone plays and are all under the same roof, even if it has tspins which of course it will. I could either keep bitching and quit the TETRIS scene or jump on the next PC multiplayer game that TTC releases.

The good players (Blink, Trance) are able to adjust easily to combos and Tspins. I recommend TOJ since it suits all styles of play, and it's in English now. B)

[Amnesia]

And you have to admit that multiplayer is less nerdy than TGM, and a lot less nerdy than playing arcade TETRIS. I'm not even religious about tnet2 or TETRIS in general like you guys are. Some of you need to lose your virginity and get out of the house.


It is not because we can see your photos on facebook, half naked, drunken with some girls that we can conclude that you are a funky boy and all of us are nerdz. I probably lived and experienced more things than you in my life my friend, in according a several number of hours on TGM..:twisted:

Damn, I just wanted to wake up a little bit the community, it is a success..:D
There is still some hot topic which can be updated at any time.

It's a different kind of skill that you and I have, us SRS players suck at TGM and you guys really suck at multiplayer.

Your post was really fine, I was surprised, except this other mistake from you,
you are wrong actually and everybody know this, let me fix your sentence :

"It's a different kind of skill that you and I have, us SRS players damn suck and ignore everything at TGM and you guys are quite limited at multiplayer."

[awake]

Please don't classify multiplayer players as SRS players or 0g. There are so many things wrong with that. Only Blockbox has 0g, and not every multiplayer game uses SRS. So unless there's some specific reason as to why SRS players suck at TGM while non-SRS players don't, it's a very inaccurate generalisation.

Just call them vs/multiplayer players...

[Zaphod77]

Generally speaking, someone who has learned SRS first will struggle very hard when robbed of their wallkicks, and wonder why they can't get their pieces where they want them once the speed goes up. They have to learn how to stop trying to do the stuff that works only in SRS.

On the other hand the skills needed to do well in TGM (clean upstacking for tetrises and pyramiding) don't exactly help you all that much in Guideline multiplayer, where you need to t-spin and combo too, and need to downstack a lot better as well. Oh, and pyramiding will get you killed fast. WIth TGM, the focus is more on not needing to downstack in the first place. You only need to be able to deal with your own misdrops, which will rarely produce the garbage patterns or volume you see in multiplayer.

[Rosti LFC]

Please don't classify multiplayer players as SRS players or 0g.

Not all SRS players are multiplayer ones and vice-versa, but the vast majority are. It's not that inaccurate a generalisation.

Also, when people say 0G they don't necessarily mean 0G, they're just generalising for any gravity setting where it's fairly negligible, which is the case in most multiplayer games. The pieces do fall, but it's so slowly they might as well not be.

[muf]

People seem to forget here that TGM, TAP, Ti and ACE all include multiplayer modes. Hebo Mini and Blockbox allow you to play online in this style. Blockbox also allows you to play ARS in regular 0G versus. Multiplayer TGM is actually quite hectic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1qCoDlHsBg). Its items are deadlier than anything Tetrinet ever dished out. Death versus or even Shirase versus, with or without items is even harder. Don't compare apples and oranges. Just go play some of these online, or even at home or in an arcade, against real people. ARS doesn't take too long to get used to- put your balls where your mouth is and kick some ass.

[awake]

Not all SRS players are multiplayer ones and vice-versa, but the vast majority are. It's not that inaccurate a generalisation.

Also, when people say 0G they don't necessarily mean 0G, they're just generalising for any gravity setting where it's fairly negligible, which is the case in most multiplayer games. The pieces do fall, but it's so slowly they might as well not be.


I still think it's quite inaccurate, especially in the original context of the post that compared SRS players to TGM players. The majority of multiplayer players do use SRS or 0g. However, the ones that actually use the rotation system to their advantage with twists, are actually good and I think they could play TGM games decently. Most of these players don't put in enough effort to overcome the initial difficulties of adjusting to TGM gameplay IF they somehow come across the games and manage to try them out. The ones who don't use spins would perform the same with any other rotation system (ARS/BRS/Tetrinet etc) so why label them as SRS players when the rotation system isn't even a factor?

[Zaphod77]

For those who played any version of tetris without SRS before competently, ARS is not that hard to learn to use competently.

But for those who've never played without SRS, it does take a good deal of getting used to.

[awake]

I don't think the rotation system you've used before determines how hard it is to get used to ARS. The main factor is your skill level in general.

Exclusive SRS players are generally newer to Tetris and thus their skill level is lower so that is why TGM games may be hard for them. Players who have previously played without SRS may take just as long to grow accustomed to ARS.

What matters is how fast they learn and how much effort they put in. Perhaps SRS players don't put in as much effort because they are occupied with their multiplayer games, whereas non SRS players find TGM to be much more fun than whatever version of Tetris they were playing.

The only SRS players that might have a problem with ARS are those who are used to playing under high gravity in SRS abusing lock delay reset or jumping over pieces. For '0g' SRS players and non-SRS players, the difficulty is stacking in high gravity.

[Monte]

I feel frustrated and upset against them. It seems too easy.

should be mad at the people that are content to keep TC where it is and not at HD. people at TC have made it quite clear they like to keep things small and cliquey and that's exactly what TC is. SRS players don't owe anybody anything. if people don't want to play TGM games and just want to stick with guideline games then that should be fine and dandy. if you want your games to be known and tc to grow then people here have to put the effort into growing it which i don't really see. can't have it both ways.

also who cares which is better or more skillful. if there's one thing i've learned from gaming communities is that stuff like this is a waste of time and the real players don't concern themselves with it and play what they like and improve themselves. they leave it to the fanboys to squabble about which game is better or who is best.

[muf]

people that are content to keep TC where it is and not at HD. people at TC have made it quite clear they like to keep things small and cliquey and that's exactly what TC is.
And admins at HD have made it quite clear that they didn't want to make any specific room for TC content or change any part of HD to accommodate us (and that's not even considering the fact Blink didn't want to stop kissing caffeine's arse-- which meant no importing of our old posts). Let's just say neither side wanted to budge in any direction, which is probably for the best. Yes, there is a rift between the two communities, but it's there for a reason. Pretty much all of the friction that existed within TC.com itself originally is now gone, because the different communities are there to provide for different types of people.

[Zaphod77]

Exclusive SRS players are generally newer to Tetris and thus their skill level is lower so that is why TGM games may be hard for them. Players who have previously played without SRS may take just as long to grow accustomed to ARS.

Anyone takes some time to learn the subtleties of the rotation system. People who played Sega Tetris are naturally right at home here. People who played other games before the guideline are happy to have wallkick and step reset. TGM is a huge improvement in capability from what they are used to. I played TGM1 for the first time, watched the demo, and thought "Best. Tetris. Game. Ever." It removed all the flaws from older games.

But those who go from SRS to ARS, especially if they started find themselves limited. They can't do what they are used to doing anymore. And they go "OMG! this is so HARD!" Playing SRS simply does not develop some of the skills needed to do well in ARS that the older games do.

The only SRS players that might have a problem with ARS are those who are used to playing under high gravity in SRS abusing lock delay reset or jumping over pieces. For '0g' SRS players and non-SRS players, the difficulty is stacking in high gravity.

Which is most people who started with SRS and haven't realised how abusive it is, IMHO.

[kotetsu213]

Is it me or is TC kinda stuck in the past right now? Still talking about all of those "SRS noobs", still talking about caffeine the "puppet master", still talking about Corrosive's high quality insights on HD (even though he gets put in his place every other day it seems), and now I can get the latest updates on how Blink lost in ARS 0G...

Meanwhile, to make matters worse, we have swooping generalizations from BOTH sides:

1500? That's not the number of players, Amnesia. It's the number of people posting in the "What are you listening to" thread.

As if TC never had a large amount of people who rarely/never contributed...

us SRS players suck at TGM and you guys really suck at multiplayer.

Yeah well except for me who took out many of the favorites in HDO1, and has been beating Corrosive ever since then (whether he wants to admit it or not) and DIGITAL who was always good at both in the first place... but hey, I guess we're just that special, not like our Tetris interests are wide or anything.

Unfortunately, on HD the debate isn't about how good TGM players are at multiplayer or vice versa, but rather if the same people are winning on TOJ and TF, whether or not playing Tnet2 helps you more at BB or if it's the other way around, or better yet, how much Arena just flat-out sucks and everyone who plays it should just move to TOJ or Blockbox period.

But let's pretend for a moment that TGM was more than just another game. Who on this planet is going to play ARS 20G versus when the 20G room in TOJ is deserted to the point where if you removed it, the majority of reactions would be "Huh, you mean something changed?" Nah, I'll at least give TGM a shot, by playing on BB using SRS because ARS sucks and is hard to use.

And since you haven't convinced me yet why I should be using ARS in the first place, I'll go right back to multiplayer because that's where everyone else is... but not that 20G room, no!

I will now end my aimless ranting with this announcement:

Get ready for the first ever BB 20G ARS tournament, coming soon to TC and HD! I...just need to decide what rules I'm gonna use... I don't think BB has items... should I use Death 0 speed? Death 300 speed? Shirase 0 speed? TGM Garbage? Nah... 30% garbage? 100% garbage? It's hard to decide when you don't have something close enough to use as a reference point... I know, I'll just ask the TGM VS pros what I should do.

So what do you say?







Hello?










Anyone?

[colour_thief]

A TGM 20G VS tournament properly done would need items and ARS garbage. And we have had these before, in real life, at arcades. Good times.

Anyways, I agree with a lot of what kotetsu is saying, especially the SRS/ARS stereotyping going on. That's all pretty dumb. But there is truth to the signal:noise comparisons of the 2 communities, as well as the behaviour of the average member. In general I'd say we're not stuck in the past, but perhaps Amnesia is... He's barely played in 2 years, after all.

[Kasumi]

I'd LOVE a 20G versus tournament. I pretty much only play 20G, and when I was active on blockbox it was mostly for 20G multiplayer. I'd get active again if there was more interest in 20G there.

My vote goes to Shirase 0 speed. I really wouldn't know what garbage type to use or anything, but I am interested in the tourney.

[KevinDDR]

Here is a playlist of over 30 videos that shows that we know how to do TGM versus in Seattle. (http://www.youtube.com/user/KevinDDR#grid/user/C04D729C33A9FD00)

[Amnesia]

Ha ha ha, your father is never so far when you play tetris..
Tell him hello from me Kevin.

[cyberguile]

my question being: what the hell with this topic ?
who gives a shit anyway ?
talk less, play more.
and all this sort of thing ;)

[muf]

my question being: what the hell with this topic ?
who gives a shit anyway ?
Amnesia, apparently :D

[Amnesia]

I just wanted some fun sorry...:oops:

[tepples]

I just can't blame people for ignoring it. It is hard to be competitive in games that are not available to play. At least not easily, or with legal means.
I understand. But are the TGM-style modes in games like Nullpomino and LJ65 and Blockbox close enough to TGM for the masses?

what arcades have Tetris in them? not here in America.
And I assume Atetris (http://tetrisconcept.net/wiki/Tetris_%28Atari%29) doesn't count.

multiplayer avoids people realizing how gimped TTC tetris is because you can play better opponents to increase the difficulty.
Also why were other falling block games like Puyo Puyo series and Puzzle Fighter II designed for 1P vs. CPU and 1P vs. 2P?

Please don't classify multiplayer players as SRS players or 0g. There are so many things wrong with that. Only Blockbox has 0g
As Rosti pointed out, 0G in practice means <1G: the piece moves down by less than one cell per frame.

and not every multiplayer game uses SRS.
Every multiplayer Tetris® game published outside Japan since 2001 uses SRS.

[slowmo]

most of us for a long time wanted to post a thread like this and everyone knows it. time to bring it up on HD :).

sorry im a srs noob that u guys like to trash on :(

[XaeL]

slowmos a noob dont listen to her :P

[Ineluctable_Entropy]

Hrm, I clicked on this thread because I thought someone would define the difference between this community and the other, but so far, it seems the only difference is the game being played (I've read all the posts up to page 3 before stopping because I was starting to get lost).

Why do some players favor one game over the other?

Also, I support a general tavern or whatever! I think it will help with garnering new members and give us a place to post random topics. I know Discussion is supposed to be that but I fear posting threads on other topics there, lest it mars the endless threads on Tetris.

[KevinDDR]

Multiplayer vs. singleplayer, although TGM has an awesome Vs. mode.

Also the main difference between HD and TC is that the majority of TC's users can write English above the level expected of a 5th grader. Can't really say the same about HD.

[Kitaru]

Also, I support a general tavern or whatever! I think it will help with garnering new members and give us a place to post random topics. I know Discussion is supposed to be that but I fear posting threads on other topics there, lest it mars the endless threads on Tetris.
This has been brought up before, but I think the general consensus has been that IRC tends to act as our general tavern. Perhaps it is a topic worth discussing again, though?

Until then, Discussion is a fine place to make general threads. Sure, a lot of them are about Tetris or Tetris-related events/meet-ups, what have you, but feel free to add threads about anythings else you'd like to discuss.

[KevinDDR]

Yeah, there's even an "off-topic" tag if you feel your thread merits it. :P

[Ineluctable_Entropy]

I have a new question!

Can someone explain to me the difference between ARS and SRS (every time I see this, I think "serious" and not game mechanic) and also provide an example of a game that uses that mechanic, preferably one of the games HD favors.

Kitaru's having trouble explaining this to me, and but we've established TGM is an ARS game and TDS is an SRS game but HD doesn't consider it competitive material.

Thanks in advance.

[Ineluctable_Entropy]

...I think the general consensus has been that IRC tends to act as our general tavern. [...]

I don't have IRC and is not interested in installing it, kthxbai. :v

[KevinDDR]

There's always the webchat client on the site!

[PetitPrince]

Can someone explain to me the difference between ARS and SRS
ARS: Tetris the Grand Master 1, 2, 2+ and 3. (2 and 2+ are nearly the same game.
SRS: Tetris DS, Tetris Friends, Tetris Online Japan, Tetris Party (Deluxe)

Rotation
ARS
http://www.tetrisconcept.net/wiki/images/b/b5/Tgm_basic_ars_description.png

SRS
http://www.tetrisconcept.net/wiki/images/3/3d/SRS-pieces.png

Notice the 4 state of the I piece in SRS versus the 2 state of ARS. Notice also how ARS sticks its pieces to the bottom of the bounding box, whereas SRS let the piece "float".
Also, the piece colors are different (but that's not important ^^).

Lock delay
Both rotation system have lock delay, but they implement their reset behavior differently.

ARS has step reset, meaning that lock delay will reset if and only if the piece go down one case in the playfield.
http://www.tetrisconcept.net/wiki/images/c/cb/TGM_Legend_Lock_Delay_2.gif

SRS has move reset, meaning that lock delay will reset everytime the player moves the piece (that is, rotation or translation)
http://bsixcentdouze.free.fr/tc/tgm-en/img/lock_srs.gif
Move reset combined with a "floating" rotation system permit a piece to "climb" a stack if you mash the buttons correctly.
If there is not limit in the amount of move reset you make (for instance in Tetris DS), an "infinity" behavior appears, i.e. as long as you mash the button, you can stay with the active piece as long as you want.

Drop

Generally, instant drop is bound to up and fast drop is bound to down.

SRS has a locking instant drop and a non-locking fast drop.
ARS has a non-locking locking instant drop and a locking fast drop.

SRS
http://www.tetrisconcept.net/wiki/images/a/a1/TGM_Legend_Sonic_Lock.gif http://www.tetrisconcept.net/wiki/images/8/8b/TGM_Legend_Fast_Drop_2.gif
ARS
http://www.tetrisconcept.net/wiki/images/a/a0/TGM_Legend_Sonic_Drop_1.gif http://www.tetrisconcept.net/wiki/images/1/1b/TGM_Legend_Fast_Drop_1.gif

Gameplay consequences: sub-20g is way faster in SRS than ARS. Most multiplayer game are sub-20g.
Possible workaround for ARS (implemented in BlockBox if I remember correctly): make up a locking instant drop and down a non-locking instant drop.

Wallkicks
ARS use a simple wallkick system: if the rotated piece collide with a wall or another piece, try to move the piece one case right or left (in this order), and carry out the movement if it is a valid one.
http://www.tetrisconcept.net/wiki/images/5/54/Wk1.gif
SRS use a complex wallkick system, seemingly arbitrary but that is actually based on mathematical rotation. See wiki (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/wiki/SRS#How_Guideline_SRS_Really_Works).

Some sort of Conclusion
ARS is more focused on single player and forced speed. The speed come from the game itself.
SRS is more focused on multiplayer and induced speed. The speed comes from the other players.

[Kitaru]

Possible workaround for ARS (implemented in BlockBox if I remember correctly): make up a locking instant drop and down a non-locking instant drop.
Almost. Up was firm drop, and Down was hard drop. This matches the locking behaviors of TGM -- Up is a non-locking drop, while Down is a locking drop. BlockBox just made both of them fast drops to facilitate speedy play.

[PetitPrince]

Aaah I knew it was something like that !

[Ineluctable_Entropy]

Some sort of Conclusion
ARS is more focused on single player and forced speed. The speed come from the game itself.
SRS is more focused on multiplayer and induced speed. The speed comes from the other players.

This has been enlightening and I don't know if it's because I am tired, but I still don't understand how SRS is more focused on multiplayer. Is it because of the floating rotation system?

[Rosti LFC]

It's because it's faster in 0G due to the extra rotation states. It's got a higher level of finesse than ARS does. It just sucks for single player modes because the floorkicks and rotation states make things really awkward in 20G.

[oh-stephanie]

tc seems like a close knit community.. but you guys have a lot of threads for single player games >_<
hd has a lot of variety in their threads.. i suppose... more multiplayer games and other dooby doo

[Amnesia]

Why did I start this topic..:rolleyes:
Bah ! I don't remember..

In reading you stephanie you make me feel that in your opinion, hd has more variety than us here ?
I would not say that. We have a ton of single player variety leaderboard, there is everything, TGM whole serie + the whole list of existing clones + a lot of other less known tetris games.

I have not observed that hd really deeply but it seems to me that it is limitated to vs games, 40 lines game and survival games. But I am sure you will reply that there is more.

When I come on BB i a bored to see only people doing 40L , 40L 40L and 40L again. It is so annoying I don't understand why people just do that continualy.

I wish that every players try both side and choose the one they feel best for them. I am happy to see that you, awake and some other player decided to come here to visit the solo-tgm area. I am sad that kotetsu abandoned us to embrace the dark side (SRS 0G). I hope you will enjoy your trip here and please, try TGM's serie and you will understand why we are so passioned by solo graded games !

EDIT : I abandonned versus communities after a few months spent because I was bored to lose against girls..:D

[oh-stephanie]

lols well i havent been on here that much >_< so iono

just pointing out first impressions

i get bored beating guys >_> jkjk not really

[Amnesia]

Do you play on BB ?
Would you accept a little body to body fight ?:twisted:
Let me see your level..

[oh-stephanie]

looooooool ok i'll be on.. butthole

[Amnesia]

10-7 for me lady..;)

But you told you had lags..:rolleyes:

[oh-stephanie]

i'll rape you when i get home
um on bb >_<

[muf]

i'll rape you when i get home

http://www.zoneshot.com/server/dg/thread%20is%20going.jpg

[oh-stephanie]

10-6 :) ggs homie

[Amnesia]

Oh oh lol, when did you post that..^_^
Right after the 2nd match it it seems.
If I well remember, I think we had a 3rd one a few minutes later which gave me a 10 - 5..;)

[oh-stephanie]

i'll be happy to play first to 50 with you
if you want to see who's better

>_> cause it seems like i am.. -coughs

[Amnesia]

You may be disapointed my dear.
But it is ok if you insist, next time I will play you with my joystick, it's gonna be hot trust me..:awe:

[oh-stephanie]

we can play on nullpomino
so you can do tspins and stuff
if you do that

[Amnesia]

hmm tspin and stuff...:confused:

[oh-stephanie]

when are we playing

[Amnesia]

hmm don't be so impatient to receive my big......garbages.
Not this week babe, see you more on the next week I think.;)

[L]

I like how this thread changed from HD vs TC to a tetris sessychat.

[Kitaru]

Right?

[Anonymous]

hd has fallen

[SYN7HOR]

hd has fallenI don't frequent HD but had a quick look and it seems as though Nullpo discussions won't be allowed, right?

And here comes my usual freedom-of-speech-rant.....

What is it with american/non-swedish forums? Why are they always so damn censured? In the swedish forums I frequent no threads are removed (unless their sole purpose trolling), they are merely left to die. 5 years ago forums were barely moderated at all, and we all lived to tell.

And why do the admins succumb to this nonsense? No Nullpo-discussion on a hardcore Tetris site? Ain't that bizarre?

I don't get this but I sure am tired of it. I don't see any point in being part of a community who can't speak freely.

[Zaphod77]

I'm pretty sure it's that TOJ hacking is now not allowed.

THere's discussion about the nullpo league still.

[Caithness]

Hard Drop is not dead. Far from it, in fact.

Many of us know how stubborn Blink can be, but based on this post (http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3309), I'd say he's learning how to be a good website administrator. The fact that he's listening to other people's advice is a good sign.

He's finally outlined a clear moderation policy. Almost the entire moderation team has been removed, and presumably he will now start selecting moderators based on their willingness and ability to moderate, rather than based on who he happens to think is a cool guy at the moment. Also, I assume that he will actually ask people whether they want to a moderator or not instead of just making them one.

To top it all off, he suggested that people come here if they no longer feel at home on Hard Drop. Pretty classy, if you ask me.

[Anonymous]

the winner is tc, duh

[K]

Make me remind about this stupid guy i forgot the name playing tetrinet.
actually Anonymous suit well if it's him, but why real anonymous are authorized to post ??

PS : i have no negative point of view about Tetrinet or HD.

[Caithness]

I don't see any mass migration from there over here, so I don't really know what you're talking about, Anonymous.

We seem to still have some sort of reputation as elitist snobs. Even though TGM and single player seem to steadily be getting more popular on Hard Drop, people still don't want to come here to talk about it.

[Zaphod77]

I could be completely wrong, but anonymous posts are most likely enabled here to accommodate people who aren't comfortable giving personal info, like harddrop.com requires.

[muf]

It's a bit of a mix and match based on ancient wisdom (http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/), the fact that we have powerful anti-spam software, and the desire to make Japanese users feel welcome (privacy and anonymity are a fundamental part of Japanese internet culture).

[Zaphod77]

I thought it was mainly for the benefit of the japanese, but wasn't sure enough to come out and say it.

[Zircean]

The issue isn't that TC seems like a bunch of elitist snobs, it's that HD appears to be more than just a forum (and one where people can do things other than talk about tetris without seeming out of place, at that).

This is something that an off-topic board would have helped with, but it still won't completely solve it unless TC gets a portal of some kind.

[muf]

TC's off-topic board is IRC.

[Zircean]

Which, depending on your application of the term "IRC", is either devoid of activity or is effectively invite-only.

I remember CT made the same excuse back when we were restarting the works, but the simple fact that I can draw from my time on HD is that most people don't really like to go on IRC if they can avoid it. Out of all the members of HD, we rarely see more than 20 in IRC at once, and that's a liberal estimate. People would much rather post in an off-topic board.

It at least stops a new user from coming on the boards, seeing subforums that are about nothing but Tetris, and then thinking "Okay, this is a little too hardcore for me."

[Burbruee]

Make me remind about this stupid guy i forgot the name playing tetrinet.

Corrosive?

[oh-stephanie]

amnesia where you at?!
too afraid to get your butt kicked by me?

merde de poulet
;) HAHHA jkjk

[Amnesia]

Sorry sweet heart..
Where do you want to play ? We can try next sunday evening.
Just remind me which support you use. Nullpo ?

[oh-stephanie]

blockbox dawwggg
or toj

[Caithness]

I've been running and maintaining this website for nearly 2 years now, mostly out of pocket, with no advertisements or member donation requests or anything. I don't ask for much back from members except to be respectful and follow the rules, but since even that is so difficult for some people I am now at the point where I would rather get rid of members and have HD be about Tetris again than to have it become some drama filled forum. I refuse to let members stir up trouble on the forums for fun just because they like to argue, so from now on if you have a problem with how things are being moderated or suggestions you will take it up with me by PMing me directly. This is a matter between the moderating team and you. Maybe you think you can walk all over the moderating team because we are giving polite responses. From now on public forum or shoutbox complaints about the moderating team will be deleted, you know to report them to me now.



Well, I said he was getting better at administration, but this just looks like a really bad move to me.

[xlro]

Maybe most of his members just don't care, or even welcome this kind of mindset, but for me this is just not an environment I would like to participate in at all. I mean, if you think about it for a second: Replying to some censorship concerns from users the day before with: "I will delete your posts, which question a moderating decision publicly." is just a joke. The constant technical hickups with the site etc. were ok, he just didn't know any better - but now he also totally fails on the basic "running a forum" front - enough for me, for now at least. :)

I will try to only contribute here in the future in all things regarding Tetris and Nullpo, and use the HD forums as little as possible. I hope some more people (especially from IRC) will join me in this, and maybe we can even get a bit more life in here.
If the maybe 5% of interesting posts on HD (the other 95% are just boring nonsense not worth reading most of the time anyway) come here to TC first, instead of HD, that's all we need I'd say.

[oh-stephanie]

Maybe most of his members just don't care, or even welcome this kind of mindset, but for me this is just not an environment I would like to participate in at all. I mean, if you think about it for a second: Replying to some censorship concerns from users the day before with: "I will delete your posts, which question a moderating decision publicly." is just a joke. The constant technical hickups with the site etc. were ok, he just didn't know any better - but now he also totally fails on the basic "running a forum" front - enough for me, for now at least. :)

I will try to only contribute here in the future in all things regarding Tetris and Nullpo, and use the HD forums as little as possible. I hope some more people (especially from IRC) will join me in this, and maybe we can even get a bit more life in here.
If the maybe 5% of interesting posts on HD (the other 95% are just boring nonsense not worth reading most of the time anyway) come here to TC first, instead of HD, that's all we need I'd say.

most of them don't care
=/ i think the biggest draw to hd is the shoutbox because it's out in the open
but besides that, the site's content and the way the moderators handle situations are very unappealing.

forum activity isn't very high on hd.. especially in areas of tetris ~ sadly.

[Kitaru]

most of them don't care
=/ i think the biggest draw to hd is the shoutbox...

forum activity isn't very high on hd...

What part of this dynamic sounds familiar...? Oh right, we mostly hang out on IRC. :)

[oh-stephanie]

lololols yes but there isn't like a chatbox right on the front page

[Zircean]

It's true, people don't care to actually put in one extra click of effort for live chat, in my experience :P

Also, the place where people *actually* hang out is, uh, not exactly open.

[muf]

Meh, we could put a shoutbox bot in #tc but it sounds like a pretty speculative measure. I'd rather do something like that if there was an influx of new or old returning members and they all wanted it.

[oh-stephanie]

I think it would be better if the moderators that put a little red message thingy would identify themselves in the post so that we can see if one moderator abuses the red messages or if it's just that all moderators are super sensitive? - Spirale

Only issues relating to moderating or the moderating team are to be PMed to me, by your request I can delete your account. Drop me a PM if you would still like me to. - Blink


and

Sounds like a "problem" to me.
We never said you can't "express yourself", what we stated and Jujube agreed with, is that Blink stated earlier any problems you have with the MODERATING team can be brought up to him through PM.

However, if you do have a problem with that on your own, you are also welcome to PM blink to delete you from the site and the forums. He is just a click away.

Thanks,
BEE

lol o_O

[xlro]

funny how discussion of these hd only issues shifts here now (or irc), because even making any constructive suggestions (I found it to be a good one by spirale tbh), which touch the topics of moderating in general get directly suppressed.
pretty clear evidence of incapacity to some degree...

[oh-stephanie]

@ xlro they're too sensitive over some things
i guess blink is scared that there's going to be an outburst of.. negativity or something if one person says something that'll spark a conversation.

[Kitaru]

Too carebear-y.

[K]

amnesia where you at?!
too afraid to get your butt kicked by me?

merde de poulet
;) HAHHA jkjk

Putain ! J'ai raté quelque chose