how do you counter someone who tspins nonstop on tetris ds?

[Blink]

i was playing someone earlier on wifi and even though i was faster and was doin alot of b2b tetrises, he would beat me w/ his nonstop b2b tspin chains. I'm not that good w/ tspins yet , what do you think I should do against someone like that? He was ignoring the few lines of garbage that went through. Also, is back to back tspins easier to do in nintendo ds than other games because of how garbage works? or am i going to be in trouble in other games too lol. Oh, last question - is there only a few starting piece orders set on tetris ds? is that how he knows exactly where to put everything right away?

[Rosti LFC]

Really the only way to counter someone that good at t-spins is simply retaliate with t-spins, or time when you send your garbage in such a way as it kills him.


This video might help slightly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rmBp4DokE



There is not specific sequence of pieces at the start, but on Tetris DS it uses a 7-piece bag as a randomiser, meaning you get all 7 different pieces in a random order, followed by the 7 different pieces again in another random order, and so on until the game ends.

[caffeine]

t-spins are stronger than tetrises, it's a simple as that. you give four lines for two instead of for four. you'd stand a better shot on xbox's evolution and splash because their t-spins are much more curbed (no-kick). tds has kick t-spins, which makes them more available, yet more complicated. either way, you have to find a way to become less dependent on tetrises.

[Blink]

thanks for the reply rosti, didn't know tspins were that much better than tetrises. Do the top ds players mainly go for tspin chains in 1v1?

[Blink]

whats no-kick and kick btw? yeah i noticed ds is alot more tspin dependant than splash. I'm making some progress on tspins, but recognizing when to tspin and setting up back to backs are tricky for me.

[Rosti LFC]

thanks for the reply rosti, didn't know tspins were that much better than tetrises. Do the top ds players mainly go for tspin chains in 1v1?


Personally, I don't "go" for t-spins. I don't stack with the sole intention of using t-spins.

Really, you can play normally as long as you are able to see opportunities to create t-spins, and use them.

Most common one that crops up is by far the t-spin double (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../wiki/index.php?title=T-Spin_Double_Setups). Learn that shape, and look for opportunities to create it when you can, because they'll pop up extremely frequently.


Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb8ZeRUzh0c


That's a Tetris DS match about 2:30 minutes long. I wasn't playing very well, and I don't stack for t-spins, but I got ten t-spin doubles in that video. There were a few more opportunities I missed as well.


Knowing the more complex ones can help, and if you get the right set of pieces at the start to set one up, you should probably take advantage of that.

While being able to see them is good, try not to force t-spins. Don't go out of your way to try and set one up, and glance at the next pieces to make sure you're getting a t-spin reasonably soon when you do attempt them, because if you screw up, need to wait for too long, or have to abort the setup you're not going to get a very pleasant stack to work with at the end of it.

[DIGITAL]

Optimal play doesn't rely on only tetrises or only on T-spins. You have to learn to incorporate both into your play to maximize garbage opportunities. The best and most frequent way of setting up a T-Spin is right over an empty column. This applies mainly towards T-Spin Singles and T-Spin Doubles. Not only are they extremely easy to spot, they're easy to set up as well, often requiring only one piece placement to finish the setup. Check out the wiki for examples.

[caffeine]

you can learn the difference between kick and no kick on the twists (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../wiki/index.php?title=Twist) article. i kind of disagree with some of the people here. i see no reason to do tetrises unless the garbage opens for them (which happens a lot because of the stupid garbage randomizer). like, why would i start off with a tetris when it takes less pieces to make a t-spin?

[jujube]

to make more T-spin doubles it really helps to learn techniques that level both sides of your empty column. then sometimes it's as easy as creating the overhang and you're done with the setup.


                ZZ
     XXXXX       ZZXXXXX
  XXXXXXXX    S XXXXXXXX      XX
  XXXXXXXX    SSXXXXXXXX       XXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX    XSXXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX

                S
                SS
    XXXXXX       SXXXXXX      X
  XXXXXXXX    OOXXXXXXXX      XX
  XXXXXXXX    OOXXXXXXXX       XXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX

                  L
                LLL             X
   XXXXXXX       XXXXXXX      XXX
  XXXXXXXX    JJXXXXXXXX       XXXXXXX
  XXXXXXXX    J XXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX
  XXXXXXXX    J XXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX

there are other situations where keeping this levelling idea in mind can lead to an eventual TSD.

                            I
                            I      Z
                            I SS  ZZOO
                     L      ISS   ZXOO
XXXX    XX    XXXX LLLXX    XXXX XXXXX
XXXX XXXXX    XXXX XXXXX    XXXX XXXXX
                 ^ ^
continuing

X
X      X
X XX  XXXX    X             X     Z
XXXTTTXXXX    X      X      XLLL ZZX
XXXXTXXXXX    X XX  XXXX    XLXX ZXXXX
XXXX XXXXX    XXXX XXXXX    XXXX XXXXX
                               ^ ^

blink, you should come to the chatroom at http://www.blockstats.org (http://www.blockstats.org/default.htm) sometime. we've been playing a bit of TDS there lately.

[Blink]

thanks for all the replies. I think I play similarly to you in that video rosti, not building for a t-spin except when it becomes available. It makes me question myself if this is a good strategy since the person who intentionally built t-spin setups got the better of me. I think I agree with you here caffeine, why setup a tetris when I can add the same amount of lines w/ fewer blocks, and thanks for the tip jujube.

[Rosti LFC]

you can learn the difference between kick and no kick on the twists (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../wiki/index.php?title=Twist) article. i kind of disagree with some of the people here. i see no reason to do tetrises unless the garbage opens for them (which happens a lot because of the stupid garbage randomizer). like, why would i start off with a tetris when it takes less pieces to make a t-spin?


You need Tetrises at some point. You can't sustain only t-spins with a 7-piece bag. You don't clear the lines fast enough.

Someone who uses only t-spins can be easily beaten if you get the garbage in quickly at the right times, because there's nothing they can do about clearing it while they're setting up the t-spins.


I already said starting with a t-spin is probably the best way to go. If the pieces go your way, then back to back triples or doubles are quite possible.

[DIGITAL]

i kind of disagree with some of the people here. i see no reason to do tetrises unless the garbage opens for them (which happens a lot because of the stupid garbage randomizer). like, why would i start off with a tetris when it takes less pieces to make a t-spin?


We're talking about TDS here. Strategies for other games may not apply.


1. That's THE main reason to tetris.

2. It's much harder and rare to BtB T-Spins with T-Spins than to BtB with mixed permutations of tetrises and T-Spins. Furthermore, the randomizer deals out ONE of each tetromino per bag, not TWO.

3. It's harder to keep the field flat when T-Spinning as opposed to tetrising.

4. Tetrises are for defensive purposes because they clear more lines. T-Spins are for offensive purposes since they send more garbage per line. (Ignore garbage countering and base garbage sent) Both can be utilized for specific purposes to raise effectiveness of said purpose.

[DIGITAL]

t-spins are stronger than tetrises, it's a simple as that. you give four lines for two instead of for four. you'd stand a better shot on xbox's evolution and splash because their t-spins are much more curbed (no-kick). tds has kick t-spins, which makes them more available, yet more complicated. either way, you have to find a way to become less dependent on tetrises.


Kick T-Spins are not really that essential. The only one truly useful midgame is the T-Spin Single that needs the kick. Most strong players on TDS ignore kick T-Spins otherwise. A kick T-Spin like a T-Spin Triple tend to be quite unnessary in the light of a T-Spin Double over an empty column. I've seen many more losses than wins resulting from a TST.


Even NOAH, the best T-Spin player I've ever seen on TDS, cannot overcome the strength of a TSD+tetris player by using TSTs.

[jujube]

We're talking about TDS here. Strategies for other games may not apply.

3. It's harder to keep the field flat when T-Spinning as opposed to tetrising.

that all depends. if someone is hell bent on making only T-spins this could be true. but you can also play effectively and keep things flat by making double, TSD, single, TSD, uncover garbage hole, triple, TSD.

Even NOAH, the best T-Spin player I've ever seen on TDS, cannot overcome the strength of a TSD+tetris player by using TSTs.

are we talking hc2 or worldwide?


edit: i think we can agree forcing TSTs is a no-no. but in a situation like this i can't come up with a better solution.


                              JJJ
   XXXXXXX    ZZ XXXXXXX        J
L  XXXXXXX    XZZXXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    X  XXXXXXX    X  XXXXXXX
LL XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX

this is another possibility but requires 2 T pieces:

    L             X
  LLL           XXX
   XXXXXXX       XXXXXXX        X
JJ XXXXXXX    XXTXXXXXXX      XXX
J  XXXXXXX    XTTXXXXXXX       XXXXXXX
J  XXXXXXX    X TXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX

[caffeine]

tst's are just as good as tsd's, which are just as good as tss's. it's just that tsd's are often the cleanest, making them the safest option.


in short, playing it safe and leaning on tetrises don't need to be the same thing.


p.s. i hate tspins just so everyone knows.

[DIGITAL]

tst's are just as good as tsd's, which are just as good as tss's. it's just that tsd's are often the cleanest, making them the safest option.

in short, playing it safe and leaning on tetrises don't need to be the same thing.


Heh, but that's the reason TSDs are better than TSTs. They're safer and they send the same amount of garbage per line cleared. Plus, they're easier to BtB into a tetris.


Playing it safe doesn't have to depend on making tetrises. The point is that tetrises are safer than T-Spins.

[jujube]

i'm'a have my cake and eat it too. then have some more http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
  XX
   XXXXXXX
XX XXXXXXX
X  XXXXXXX
XX XXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX

edit: i just sent you 16 lines!

[DIGITAL]

i'm'a have my cake and eat it too. then have some more http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
  XX
   XXXXXXX
XX XXXXXXX
X  XXXXXXX
XX XXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX

edit: i just sent you 16 lines!


You have to admit, that situation is like a myth compared to the amount of times TSDs show up. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif Even when they do show up, they're still harder to setup than a TSD.

[jujube]

yeah, TSDs happen more often hehe. but you never know...


I
I XXXXXXX
I XXXXXXX
I XXXXXXX
   XXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX       XXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX       XXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX       XXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX       XXXXXXX
oh noes! what now do i do.

  ZZ
   ZZ           XX
JJ XXXXXXX       XX
J  XXXXXXX    XXTXXXXXXX
JSSXXXXXXX    XTTXXXXXXX      XX
SS XXXXXXX    XXTXXXXXXX       XX
yay, TST!

  XX
   XX
X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXXXX
why thank you stupid garbage.

  XX
   XX
XIXXXXXXXX
XIXXXXXXXX
XIXXXXXXXX      XX
XIXXXXXXXX       XX
now if i could just get one more little tiny hole...

  XX
   XX
X XXXXXXXX

TDS garbage, you're my bff rofl wtf hoo-ah


edit: i just sent you 20 lines!

[DIGITAL]

We're talking about TDS here. Strategies for other games may not apply.

3. It's harder to keep the field flat when T-Spinning as opposed to tetrising.

that all depends. if someone is hell bent on making only T-spins this could be true. but you can also play effectively and keep things flat by making double, TSD, single, TSD, uncover garbage hole, triple, TSD.

http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif You make it sound as though we can set up a TSD cleanly at every opportunity. Easier said than done. You'd probably end up stacking around the setup more often than not, which can lead to field instability if done excessively. Also, if you have to clear all those lines to keep the field flat, you'd end up losing time from the line clear animation and BtB in addition to the time it takes to soft drop.

Even NOAH, the best T-Spin player I've ever seen on TDS, cannot overcome the strength of a TSD+tetris player by using TSTs.
are we talking hc2 or worldwide?
Both. Worldwide garbage can be messy but it's still clean enough to put TST players at a disadvantage. NOAH did not focus his style on TSTs until he was not playing worldwide anymore or so I've heard from as7.

[edit: i think we can agree forcing TSTs is a no-no. but in a situation like this i can't come up with a better solution.

                              JJJ
   XXXXXXX    ZZ XXXXXXX        J
L  XXXXXXX    XZZXXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    X  XXXXXXX    X  XXXXXXX
LL XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX

this is another possibility but requires 2 T pieces:

    L             X
  LLL           XXX
   XXXXXXX       XXXXXXX        X
JJ XXXXXXX    XXTXXXXXXX      XXX
J  XXXXXXX    XTTXXXXXXX       XXXXXXX
J  XXXXXXX    X TXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX

EZ TSS
                            T
                            TT
   XXXXXXX     JJXXXXXXX    TXXXXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    XJ XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    XJ XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
LL XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
You can stack another line above the column to set up a BtB.
Incomplete TSD TSS
                               ZZ
                                ZZ
   XXXXXXX    LL XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
  JXXXXXXX     LXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX 
  JXXXXXXX     LXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX 
JJXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX 
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX

Another method would be to use two Js/Ls to set up for a tetris if the situation comes. Or you can just place the L/J like the above diagrams and skim downward with two line clears to be safe. Or even just place the L/J like in the diagram and make an inverted skim with a L/J to set up a TSD.


EDIT: Yoshihiro anyone? http://fumen.zui.jp/?v100@4dG3ibG3ibG3i ... BMVBNVBESB (http://fumen.zui.jp/?v100_404dG3ibG3ibG3ibP3gbI3qbA4G7eDeWBMVBNVBESB)

[jujube]

that all depends. if someone is hell bent on making only T-spins this could be true. but you can also play effectively and keep things flat by making double, TSD, single, TSD, uncover garbage hole, triple, TSD.

http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif You make it sound as though we can set up a TSD cleanly at every opportunity.
yeah. every easy opportunity, and the in-between line clears create those. they also remove blocks from the well, which might have otherwise contributed to overstacking.

Also, if you have to clear all those lines to keep the field flat, you'd end up losing time from the line clear animation and BtB in addition to the time it takes to soft drop.
with worldwide garbage, you take what you can get. you can't always keep stacking upwards for tetrises just to keep BtB alive. you already know this because your rating is higher than mine http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

and as far as losing time, you lose the most time by stacking too high over a hole underneath, unless you have a specific plan for clearing it up with 1 or 2 pieces. still, it takes time to stack up everywhere else to accomplish that. there are ways to consistently T-spin while uncovering garbage. i'm not going to say 100% of the time or give any number, but it can be done very often. there are good and efficient ways, we just need to find them. we all do it sometimes though. i've seen you T-spin with nearly every (or every) T piece for periods of time.

Even NOAH, the best T-Spin player I've ever seen on TDS, cannot overcome the strength of a TSD+tetris player by using TSTs.
are we talking hc2 or worldwide?
Both. Worldwide garbage can be messy but it's still clean enough to put TST players at a disadvantage. NOAH did not focus his style on TSTs until he was not playing worldwide anymore or so I've heard from as7.
there's a time to TST, and a time to do something else. the player that makes the best out of each situation is going to win. there are times when a TST setup falls in your lap without any effort.

[edit: i think we can agree forcing TSTs is a no-no. but in a situation like this i can't come up with a better solution.

                              JJJ
   XXXXXXX    ZZ XXXXXXX        J
L  XXXXXXX    XZZXXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    X  XXXXXXX    X  XXXXXXX
LL XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX

this is another possibility but requires 2 T pieces:

    L             X
  LLL           XXX
   XXXXXXX       XXXXXXX        X
JJ XXXXXXX    XXTXXXXXXX      XXX
J  XXXXXXX    XTTXXXXXXX       XXXXXXX
J  XXXXXXX    X TXXXXXXX    X XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX

EZ TSS
                            T
                            TT
   XXXXXXX     JJXXXXXXX    TXXXXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    XJ XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    XJ XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
LL XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
You can stack another line above the column to set up a BtB.
Incomplete TSD TSS
                               ZZ
                                ZZ
   XXXXXXX    LL XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
  JXXXXXXX     LXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX 
  JXXXXXXX     LXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX 
JJXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX 
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX

Another method would be to use two Js/Ls to set up for a tetris if the situation comes. Or you can just place the L/J like the above diagrams and skim downward with two line clears to be safe. Or even just place the L/J like in the diagram and make an inverted skim with a L/J to set up a TSD.
any of those methods could work, depending on the situation the other player is in. this also goes back to hc2 vs. worldwide. if you make a TST here in worldwide the garbage is more likely to be scrambled (and 6 lines at once). in hc2 it wouldn't be quite as effective. but in either case, if the other player is stacked a little high already i'm going to TST. if i'm stacked high, i need to be more conservative and go for a tetris.

edit:EDIT: Yoshihiro anyone? http://fumen.zui.jp/?v100@4dG3ibG3ibG3i ... BMVBNVBESB (http://fumen.zui.jp/?v100_404dG3ibG3ibG3ibP3gbI3qbA4G7eDeWBMVBNVBESB)
yoshihiro or STSD, if you have 2 T pieces or time to wait.

edit:EZ TSS
                            T
                            TT
   XXXXXXX     JJXXXXXXX    TXXXXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    XJ XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    XJ XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
LL XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
You can stack another line above the column to set up a BtB.

on second glance, this way looks good. it seems like you would have somewhere to put every piece.

[DIGITAL]

http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif You make it sound as though we can set up a TSD cleanly at every opportunity.
yeah. every easy opportunity, and the in-between line clears create those. they also remove blocks from the well, which might have otherwise contributed to overstacking.
Even with the in-between line clears, it's still hard to keep the T-Spins up without stacking around the setups while waiting for the T, which is often times the main cause of overstacking. Also, I consider skimming to be more in line with tetrises than TSDs but that's just me.
Also, if you have to clear all those lines to keep the field flat, you'd end up losing time from the line clear animation and BtB in addition to the time it takes to soft drop.
with worldwide garbage, you take what you can get. you can't always keep stacking upwards for tetrises just to keep BtB alive. you already know this because your rating is higher than mine http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif
Of course you take what you can get. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif But it's all relative. If garbage is so messy, wouldn't it be a bad idea to clear so many lines in between TSDs?

and as far as losing time, you lose the most time by stacking too high over a hole underneath, unless you have a specific plan for clearing it up with 1 or 2 pieces. still, it takes time to stack up everywhere else to accomplish that. there are ways to consistently T-spin while uncovering garbage. i'm not going to say 100% of the time or give any number, but it can be done very often. there are good and efficient ways, we just need to find them. we all do it sometimes though. i've seen you T-spin with nearly (or every) T piece for periods of time.
Remember, I'm an advocate of well-roundedness and not a devoted tetriser nor a devoted T-Spinner. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif I'm just saying devotion to only one of the two is disadvantageous to the player.


Both. Worldwide garbage can be messy but it's still clean enough to put TST players at a disadvantage. NOAH did not focus his style on TSTs until he was not playing worldwide anymore or so I've heard from as7.
there's a time to TST, and a time to do something else. the player that makes the best out of each situation is going to win. there are times when a TST setup falls in your lap without any effort.
I agree. There's a time for every technique. But some techniques have more time than others. That sounds a little cheesy. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif

any of those methods could work, depending on the situation the other player is in. this also goes back to hc2 vs. worldwide. if you make a TST here in worldwide the garbage is more likely to be scrambled (and 6 lines at once). in hc2 it wouldn't be quite as effective. but in either case, if the other player is stacked a little high already i'm going to TST. if i'm stacked high, i need to be more conservative and go for a tetris.

Hmm, I'm not sure about T-Spin garbage being more scrambled. And this goes back to the "there's a time for everything." I have to say though, most of the time, you have an alternative to the TST, especially a TSD over a long column which comprises the majority of T-Spins in an average game.

[tepples]

http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif You make it sound as though we can set up a TSD cleanly at every opportunity. Easier said than done.

Tetris stacking is easy only because we've been practicing tetris stacking since 1989. A lot of us learned on single-player games that granted x points for a single, 30x points for a tetris, and only 2.5x points for a TSD, and TSDs were dangerous at high gravity due to lack of lock delay. In fact, one iteration of Tetris on N64 discouraged T-spinning by removing all bonus squares in the playfield when the player executed a T-spin line clear.


Games since Tetris Worlds, on the other hand, grant x points for a single and 8x to 12x points for a tetris or TSD, and lock delay makes TSDs safe even at 20G. This has been the case since 2001 (Tetris Worlds), but North American games from 2001 through 2005 were placed in a lot of players' discontinuity (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisContinuity) due to the "actually breaks Tetris" review and other reviews that characterized TW as mediocre to urine-poor, as well as the control lag in the GBA version of TW. So let's say serious T-spin research dates back to 2006, when Tetris DS finally did justice to the Guideline on a handheld.

[jujube]

If garbage is so messy, wouldn't it be a bad idea to clear so many lines in between TSDs?
i was only talking about making 1 type of line clear between TSDs.

any of those methods could work, depending on the situation the other player is in. this also goes back to hc2 vs. worldwide. if you make a TST here in worldwide the garbage is more likely to be scrambled (and 6 lines at once). in hc2 it wouldn't be quite as effective. but in either case, if the other player is stacked a little high already i'm going to TST. if i'm stacked high, i need to be more conservative and go for a tetris.
Hmm, I'm not sure about T-Spin garbage being more scrambled.

here i was comparing TST in worldwide to TST in hc2. maybe i wrote it funny.

[jujube]

tepples - it wasn't that long ago when i had a hard time making tetrises http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif

[DIGITAL]

IMO, tetrises are inherently more simple than TSDs. The shape and concept is easier to visualize. I'm not saying that experience can't lessen the effect, but setting up a TSD looks more complicated to me no matter how you spin it. I also wasn't born before 1990. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[DIGITAL]

If garbage is so messy, wouldn't it be a bad idea to clear so many lines in between TSDs?
i was only talking about making 1 type of line clear between TSDs.
Yep, I understood what you meant. I was referring to the need to constantly clear a line after a T-Spin to make it flat. Tetrises tend to keep the field flat while you're stacking for them. With persistent TSDs, you often have to stack around the setup and cleanup afterwards.

any of those methods could work, depending on the situation the other player is in. this also goes back to hc2 vs. worldwide. if you make a TST here in worldwide the garbage is more likely to be scrambled (and 6 lines at once). in hc2 it wouldn't be quite as effective. but in either case, if the other player is stacked a little high already i'm going to TST. if i'm stacked high, i need to be more conservative and go for a tetris.
Hmm, I'm not sure about T-Spin garbage being more scrambled.
here i was comparing TST in worldwide to TST in hc2. maybe i wrote it funny.


Hmm, my bad. I misread it. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif Anyhow, wouldn't a combination of a TSS, TSD, or tetris (garbage spike) accomplish the same task as that TST?

[jujube]

seems i slipped one past you earlier. this is what happens when we post so often in one thread http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

edit:EZ TSS
                            T
                            TT
   XXXXXXX     JJXXXXXXX    TXXXXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    XJ XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    XJ XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
LL XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
You can stack another line above the column to set up a BtB.
on second glance, this way looks good. it seems like you would have somewhere to put every piece.

[DIGITAL]

seems i slipped one past you earlier. this is what happens when we post so often in one thread http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

edit:EZ TSS
                            T
                            TT
   XXXXXXX     JJXXXXXXX    TXXXXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    XJ XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
L  XXXXXXX    XJ XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
LL XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX    XX XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXX
You can stack another line above the column to set up a BtB.
on second glance, this way looks good. it seems like you would have somewhere to put every piece.


Hehe, there are so many ways to go about it.

http://fumen.zui.jp/?v100@4dG3ibG3ibG3i ... BdRBOVBIVB (http://fumen.zui.jp/?v100_404dG3ibG3ibG3ibP3gbI3qbgNI7eDkVBdRBOVBIVB)


The mirror also works. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[jujube]

"how do you counter someone who T-spins nonstop"

you don't because...IT DON'T STOP! (http://infinitespin.ytmnd.com/default.htm)

[Blink]

lol good point!