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View Full Version : I can't get T-Spins to work >_<

niku
06-01-2006, 08:44 AM
Whenever I get a T-spin, it's totally on accident. If I set one up and try to get it, the T block just pops back up to the top when I rotate it. What am I doing wrong? >_<



Edit: I forgot to mention that I'm referring to Tetris DS
X-Perts
06-01-2006, 05:39 PM
Ok here goes. This is basically everything you need to know...


A t-spin occurs when you rotate the T-block to move into a space that it shouldn't naturally fit into, OR can only fit into by rotation.


Let me show you.

T-Spin(Clears no lines):

__________

__________

_T________

TTT_______

_XXXX_____


Rotate Clockwise


Normally the piece would look like this:

(WRONG)

__________

__________

_T________

_TT_______

_TXXX_____

(Notice that the two blocks overlap where it is bold)


Instead, the piece will end up like this:

(RIGHT)

__________

__________

T_________

TT________

TXXXX_____




T-Spin Single(Clears one line):

__________

_________T

XXXXXXXXTT

XXXXXXX__T


Rotate Clockwize:

(WRONG)

__________

_________T

XXXXXXXXTTT

XXXXXXX___

(Obviously this won't work)


Instead, the piece will end up like this:

(RIGHT)


__________

__________

XXXXXXXXT_

XXXXXXXTTT




T-Spin Double(Clears two line):

__________

____TXX___

XXXTT_XXXX

XXXXTXXXXX


Rotate CounterClockwize:

<b>(RIGHT)</b>


__________

_____XX___

XXXTTTXXXX

XXXXTXXXXX




T-Spin Triple(Clears Three lines):

__________

____TXX___

___TTTX___

XXXXX_XXXX

XXXX__XXXX

XXXXX_XXXX


Rotate CounterClockwise


Normally the piece would look like this:

(WRONG)

__________

____TXX___

___TT_X___

XXXXT_XXXX

XXXX__XXXX

XXXXX_XXXX

(Notice that the two blocks overlap where it is bold)


Instead, the piece will end up like this:

(RIGHT)

__________

_____XX___

______X___

XXXXXTXXXX

XXXXTTXXXX

XXXXXTXXXX



Take note that these are not the only ways to perform t-spins, but these are the most common.




This is what T-Spin's (And Tetrises) will do:


T-Spin - 100 pts (Also sends 0 line)


T-Spin single - 200 pts (Also sends 2 lines)

BtoB - 300 pts (Also sends 3 lines)


T-Spin double - 1200 pts (Also sends 4 lines)

BtoB - 1800 pts (Also sends 5 lines)


T-Spin triple - 1600 pts (Also Sends 6 lines)

BtoB - 2400 pts (also sends 7 lines)
tepples
06-02-2006, 04:45 AM
A t-spin occurs when you rotate the T-block to move into a space that it shouldn't naturally fit into, OR can only fit into by rotation.

Let me show you.
T-Spin(Clears no lines):
__________
__________
_T________
TTT_______
_XXXX_____

Rotate Clockwise

Normally the piece would look like this:
(WRONG)
__________
__________
_T________
_TT_______
_TXXX_____
(Notice that the two blocks overlap where it is bold)

Instead, the piece will end up like this:
(RIGHT)
__________
__________
T_________
TT________
TXXXX_____
Why does the game count this as a T-spin when the piece could have been dropped in that orientation from above? In The New Tetris, a T-spin happens when a piece lands and it cannot move left, right, or up. But Tetris DS recognizes some T-spins that TNT doesn't (such as the above) and fails to recognize others that TNT does (such as a few T-spin singles similar to the double below). Has anybody reversed TDS's formula?

T-Spin Double(Clears two line):
__________
____TXX___
XXXTT_XXXX
XXXXTXXXXX

Rotate CounterClockwize:
<b>(RIGHT)</b>

__________
_____XX___
XXXTTTXXXX
XXXXTXXXXX
Remove one of the X blocks on the bottom row, and the T-spin won't be recognized.


T-Spin Triple(Clears Three lines):
__________
____TXX___
___TTTX___
XXXXX_XXXX
XXXX__XXXX
XXXXX_XXXX

Rotate CounterClockwise

Normally the piece would look like this:
(WRONG)
__________
____TXX___
___TT_X___
XXXXT_XXXX
XXXX__XXXX
XXXXX_XXXX
(Notice that the two blocks overlap where it is bold)

Instead, the piece will end up like this:
(RIGHT)
__________
_____XX___
______X___
XXXXXTXXXX
XXXXTTXXXX
XXXXXTXXXX


This is an anomaly in the wall kick rules used by SRS games such as TDS. The more obvious wall kick rule, used by TGM, would end up like this:


____T_____

___TTXX___

____T_X___

XXXXX_XXXX

XXXX__XXXX

XXXXX_XXXX
colour_thief
06-02-2006, 05:39 AM
I thought it was: Every T-move that uses a wallkick (and no further movement) is a T-spin.




Pro Tip: Using "Code" instead of "Quote" will use a monospace font.

T-Spin Double(Clears two line):
__________
____TXX___
XXXTT_XXXX
XXXXTXXXXX

Rotate CounterClockwize:
<b>(RIGHT)</b>

__________
_____XX___
XXXTTTXXXX
XXXXTXXXXX

T-Spin Double(Clears two line):
__________
____TXX___
XXXTT_XXXX
XXXXTXXXXX

Rotate CounterClockwize:
<b>(RIGHT)</b>

__________
_____XX___
XXXTTTXXXX
XXXXTXXXXX

T-Spin Triple(Clears Three lines):
__________
____TXX___
___TTTX___
XXXXX_XXXX
XXXX__XXXX
XXXXX_XXXX

Rotate CounterClockwise

Normally the piece would look like this:
(WRONG)
__________
____TXX___
___TT_X___
XXXXT_XXXX
XXXX__XXXX
XXXXX_XXXX
(Notice that the two blocks overlap where it is bold)

Instead, the piece will end up like this:
(RIGHT)
__________
_____XX___
______X___
XXXXXTXXXX
XXXXTTXXXX
XXXXXTXXXX

This is an anomaly in the wall kick rules used by SRS games such as TDS. The more obvious wall kick rule, used by TGM, would end up like this:

____T_____
___TTXX___
____T_X___
XXXXX_XXXX
XXXX__XXXX
XXXXX_XXXX

And, to nitpick, under Sega/TGM rotations this final example would in fact not be a wallkick. It would be the default rotation.
tepples
06-02-2006, 07:10 AM
I thought it was: Every T-move that uses a wallkick (and no further movement) is a T-spin.

Doesn't help in the case of


__________
____TXX___
XXXTT_XXXX
XXXXTXXXXX

counterclockwise
__________
_____XX___
XXXTTTXXXX
XXXXTXXXXX

No wallkick here, but it's still recognized. However, if you take out one of the lower blocks it doesn't recognize it.
colour_thief
06-02-2006, 08:11 AM
Well, the simplest explanation I can think of is:


T placements ending in a wallkick, and also that specific move hackily included.
X-Perts
06-02-2006, 08:38 AM
From what I've figured out, HOW a T block got where it did, is less important than WHERE it ended up.

Basically, the requirement to CHECK for a t-Spin is that the last input was a rotation NOT a direction.


Once it starts to check for a T-spin, all it has to do is check if three of the four spaces around the block are occupied.



Here's an example:

     #XXXXX           
XXXTTTXXXXX
XXX#T#XXXXX

*The T can point in any direction for this example to work


In this game, the walls (non-playable margins) are counted as occupied spaces. That's why my example of a T-Spin single can be performed.
Here's an example:

W          W
W          W
#T         W
WTT XXXXXXXW
#T#XXXXXXXXW

*In this example, Normal blocks could take the place of the wall
tepples
06-02-2006, 09:46 AM
And TDS recognizes only the T tetromino, unlike TNT. I just tried the spin triple with an L, and it failed. With an S it also failed.


But if I place a T like so:

%%%%T %%%%
%%% TT%%%%
%%%%T%%%%%

and then rotate it at all, even clockwise once and counterclockwise once (to end up in the same position and orientation), it still counts as a T-spin. So you're right about "last successful command was a rotate".


So in SRS, the rule as we know it is "if tetromino being locked is T AND last successful command was rotate left or rotate right AND 3 of the 4 squares diagonally adjacent to the T's center are occupied, trigger T-spin bonus." I should go add that to the wiki.
colour_thief
06-02-2006, 10:11 AM
Depends on how broad you want the definition to be. If you look closely in one of the Arika TGM3 videos, something counts as a T-Spin when there are only 2 filled diagonally adjacent spaces.
niku
06-02-2006, 01:18 PM
Thanks... I've read faqs and instructions on how to do it and it makes sense here, but when I try to rotate a t-block that way it pops back up to the top of the stack instead of sliding down where I want it to be. Every time. http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif
niku
06-02-2006, 01:20 PM
T-Spin Single(Clears one line):
__________
_________T
XXXXXXXXTT
XXXXXXX__T

Rotate Clockwize:
(WRONG)
__________
_________T
XXXXXXXXTTT
XXXXXXX___
(Obviously this won't work)

Instead, the piece will end up like this:
(RIGHT)

__________
__________
XXXXXXXXT_
XXXXXXXTTT





Only for me, it always ends up like


________T_

_______TTT

XXXXXXXX_

XXXXXXX___
tepples
06-02-2006, 05:27 PM
In Tetris DS:

|          |     |        T |
|          |     |       TTT|
|XXXXXX XT |     |XXXXXX X  |
|XXXXXXXXTT|  => |XXXXXXXX  |
|XXXXXXX T |     |XXXXXXX   |

but

|          |     |          |
|          |     |          |
|XXXXXX X T|     |XXXXXX X  |
|XXXXXXXXTT|  => |XXXXXXXXT |
|XXXXXXX  T|     |XXXXXXXTTT|
caffeine
06-02-2006, 08:42 PM
niku, have you consulted the wiki?


http://www.tetrisconcept.com/tetriswiki/Twists (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../tetriswiki/Twists)

http://www.tetrisconcept.com/tetriswiki ... pin_Triple (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../tetriswiki/Back_to_Back_T-Spin_Triple)


if you do exactly that and it doesn't work, then you're not playing the same game.
colour_thief
06-02-2006, 09:11 PM
Hey guys, will this count as a T-Spin?


|        T |
|       TTT|
|XXXXXXXX  |
|XXXXXXXX  |
|XXXXXXXX  |
|XXXXXXXX  |
|XXXXXXXX  |
|XXXXXXXXT |
|XXXXXXXXTT|
|XXXXXXXXTX|
tepples
06-02-2006, 10:32 PM
No. If the piece has moved down since rotation, even if only by gravity, then the last successful command is not "rotate"; it's "move down". I'll go clarify that on [[Twists (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../tetriswiki/Twists)]].
X-Perts
06-03-2006, 03:27 AM
That's not a t-spin. Not because it goes down. It doesn't. It will get caught on the ledge. It's not a twist, because it is not surrounded by three occupied blocks.


Edit: Oh sorry. I thaught you were twisting it in the other direction...
06-05-2006, 10:05 AM
In Tetris DS:
|          |     |        T |
|          |     |       TTT|
|XXXXXX XT |     |XXXXXX X  |
|XXXXXXXXTT|  => |XXXXXXXX  |
|XXXXXXX T |     |XXXXXXX   |

but

|          |     |          |
|          |     |          |
|XXXXXX X T|     |XXXXXX X  |
|XXXXXXXXTT|  => |XXXXXXXXT |
|XXXXXXX  T|     |XXXXXXXTTT|



Oh. Thanks.



Hmm.....
06-05-2006, 10:09 AM
niku, have you consulted the wiki?

http://www.tetrisconcept.com/tetriswiki/Twists (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../tetriswiki/Twists)
http://www.tetrisconcept.com/tetriswiki ... pin_Triple (http://www.tetrisconcept.net/forum/../tetriswiki/Back_to_Back_T-Spin_Triple)

if you do exactly that and it doesn't work, then you're not playing the same game.


Yeah, I read it and thought I understood it, but when I tried it myself (from memory -- I mostly play on the train to/from work) it didn't work. So apparently I didn't undrestand it after all.