[IDEAS] For a fanmade Master mode that wouldn't be mine

Thread in 'Discussion' started by m.kevin, 27 Aug 2011.

  1. Hi there.

    I know I've already made a topic about a fanmade of TGM and how would you want it to be.

    Here, we'll look in detail at how must be the Master mode of a fanmade game of TGM.

    For me, Master mode is the best Tetris mode ever. The grades, the marathon to level 999, the Grand Master rank... This is just awesome.

    So, to make the Master mode even more balanced and better, what would you do to it ?
     
  2. One thing that's kind of a bummer for new players trying TGM3 is that it's a pretty big step from Easy to Master. It's especially frustrating if you get ramped up to a tough speed and manage to hold on for a bit longer, but keep getting your shiny grades taken away by Regrets and getting stuck in the same place.

    Instead of essentially differentiating TAP (no Cools) and Ti (all Cools) speedcurves, it might be kinder to budding Master players if there were a Regret/slower-than-Cool-baseline branch. In addition to being generally easier, it could have an earlier ending (as in Ti's 7 minute torikan) or some sort of grading penalty (such as a cap or reduction).

    Of course, it can't be too mild or else players won't be pushed to improve. It should probably be a system that starts taking effect after the TAP 200 part of the speedcurve in order to bump players back onto that track if they've accidentally pushed themselves too far into the TAP leg of the speedcurve too early. (I.e., if you can't play fast enough to not Regret on 1G... here, let's have you another slowdown after that section and another shot at 1G to practice.)

    That's just an interesting thought I had. :) I still need to think of what might quell the complaints about Ti's grading quirks in general, but I do think it would be nice if Ti didn't default to grinding beginners to shreds for daring to play an experts-only game. (In an ideal world you'd just have all three games available in one location and maybe not have to worry about designing such systems, but that's not exactly realistic outside of game centers in Japan.)
     
  3. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    I agree that the lack of an intermediate mode hurts the series as a whole.

    Pretty much 0-500 IS intermediate, but people who aren't experts won't get that.

    I think there should be an intermediate mode, that stretches the speed curve of the first half of the game out to entering TGM speed 20G at 900, with no torikan at all, but also with no weird slowdowns near the 20g point. Just a simple and very slow increase in the speed of the game. ALso have it give you hints (actually GOOD ones, if possible) for an extended period.
     
  4. I had an idea : eliminate cools and regrets from the Master mode.

    What I would do instead is stretch the Master mode to level 1500, and put 2 torikans : one at level 500, and one at level 1000.
    The one at level 500 would trigger a 20g roll after 7 minutes
    The one at level 1000 would trigger a lv.1200 roll after 8:45 minutes.
    You would get the invisible roll by getting to level 1500 with a m9.
    There would be 3 more Master grades between MM and GM : Tetris Master, Game Master, and Super Master.

    Now, the timings would be the same as Ti :
    0-499 25 25 14 30 40
    500-599 25 25 8 30 25
    600-699 25 16 8 30 16
    700-799 16 12 8 30 12
    800-899 12 6 8 30 6
    900-999 12 6 6 17 6
    1000-1099 6 6 6 17 6
    1100-1199 5 5 6 15 6
    1200-1500 4 4 6 15 6

    So let's debate to this (and propose a ultra complicated super-S9 grading table, yay)
     
  5. Forgive me, but I think there is already enough grade inflation such that having more grades than Ti does is completely and utterly unnecessary. Especially if you are getting rid of the cool system...

    That being said, I think there is some value in having a game which does not reach 20G until very late. It still pushes you to improve, but it's not as if there is a wall which prevents you from progressing when you are only halfway done. Perhaps 200 levels of 20G at the end of the game? Speed curve resets could also be combined with this, but Zaphod's suggestion of getting rid of the janky bullshit that happens in the 400 section is probably a good thing to heed.

    Also, in this theoretical mode, the grades should only go up to Master. ;)
     
  6. The problem with Ti grades is really the cool/regret system. It's supposed to give grades, but it actually take grades out of you.

    I made the test : S7 on the normal game, m3 on Master#G2 on heboris. That's the real problem.

    For me, TGM grading was the best, because the grades were progressively harder to have. So if somehow we can make a hybrid of TGM and Ti grades, that would be the best mode ever.
     
  7. Master#G2 uses a really silly hybrid system where every internal grade on the TAP scale is a visible grade along with the Ti grading scale, or something like that. Your m3 was not really an m3 on the TAP scale in Ti (in fact, that's impossible). The cool/regret system had nothing to do with that, really.

    Heboris in general is not really that accurate, so I wouldn't go by it for anything (including the grading system, which is kind of broken if I remember correctly).
     
  8. I know that.

    It was, in fact, to say that without cools but with Ti grading, I could have m3. The biggest problem with cools are the speed boost.
     
  9. Muf

    Muf

    The only way you can get m3 in Ti grading without cools is to score 3 grades in the fading roll. Otherwise, Ti grading without cools is exactly TAP grading.

    Ti grade = TAP grade + cools - regrets + staff roll grade points
     
  10. Ok then.

    I tried to play MASTER#G3 on TI-ARS, and I got S7, the same grade as Ti. So, in a way, it doesn't kill grades.

    But still, I think the cools are a problem. Or maybe the problems are that the mode is too short. My proposition is to keep the Ti grading, and expand/redo the internal grade table to include the m grades. Also, the maximum level would be 1500, with 2 torikans :
    one @ level 500, in which you can still get grades, but never get to S1
    one @ level 1000, in which you can still get grades, but never get to S9

    Also, I think we should take the original level system : 3 levels for Triples, 4 levels for Tetrises.

    It needs something, but I do my best so that the mode concept will be good for both noobs and absolute Grand Masters. Also, everything in-between.
     
  11. I couldn't agree more about the TI regrets. I love the polish, previews and hold of TI and the qualified grade system is great, but I forego all of that because of the grade penanties for perseverance and stick to TGM and TAP. Using the grade decay rate or other speed target to make you miss the opportunity to earn further grades seemsa smoother system to me.

    I suspect I am in this "intermediate" area of skill that you describe, I think that one big thing that diferentiates intermediate from expert is (as I still have) the inability to keep manual locking into 20G. Given the full lock delays to plan in 20G means I can survive almost indefinitely but pushing or getting pushed more than that is a recipe for immediate failure. I've been at this stage for quite a while despite the reading up and practice, I think it's a stage of progression you find yourself in for a long time unless you have a lot of talent and/or dedication.

    Can failing a torikan be the trigger for diverting players into a mode of appropriate challenge rather than ending the game?
     
  12. Zaphod77

    Zaphod77 Resident Misinformer

    Here's a crazy idea.

    Double the length of the speedcurve.

    Every two sections on the speedcurve, go up a grade.

    If you would get the equivalent of a cool, skip 3 sections (gain two grades).
    If you would get neither a cool or regret, skip 1 section. (gain one grade)
    If you would get a regret (but set it up so both are impossible to get in the same section) only go up 1 section (1/2 grade)

    Put the other grade point features in as usual, and calibrate the grade scale.
     
  13. MisterBenn : I was talking about guys like me, who can't get to 999 just because of the stupid COOLs that are way too easy to get.

    Zaphod77 : The problem with this idea is that we're going to get A BILLION CRAPTONS of grades, and that certainly wouldn't give precisely a correct grade for a good player.
    What I would say to improve this idea is that : get the original consequences for the REGRETs and COOLs.
    But to get all COOLs and skip 2 sections and have a grade bonus, you'd have to have both Tetris COOL and Section COOL, so the COOLs are harder to get.

    Hole REGRETs could disappear too, they suck.
     

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